Health & Fitness – An 11-year-old girl died after her parents prayed for healing rather than seek medical help for a treatable form of diabetes, police said Tuesday.
There has been discussion of having to get a 'license' to procreate, since the state makes adoptive parents subjects of such intense scrutiny. A parenting license is a bit too fascist for my taste, however a tax credit for passing a comprehensive parenting class for first-time parents would seem to make sense.
Thoughts?
And the TRULY disgusting thing: those f'ing idiot people are probably SATISFIED with the outcome; "it's God's will that she be taken to heaven now." or some such bul!sh!t. It's unfortunate that someone who knew about this didn't get a judge to intervene.
And another irony: These are probably the SAME freaking idiots that would carry a picket sign all day in front of an abortion clinic.
And a question: If they took the girl to a doctor for immunizations, why not for life saving medical treatment? Did they simply get more and more mentally ill as the girl got older?
Religion is the only known contagious mental illness. It is more virulent than any plague every was.
Ya forgot Mass, NY and Ca ya ^&#*@(@*$&%^%!!! Ya hate Jews and Arabs? I bet you think you aren't racist either do ya?
Ya hate the south! LOL cool stay up in them thar woods yer shck is in.
With an IQ and mind set like you have Far Left,,,, you aren't one to talk about being inbred, just ask your Unclegrandmaw, it'll set ya straight about your family tree with no branches, Just a knarly ole trunck,,,, yeeeehaaawww!
''Its a tribal disease, and inbred idiots are expecially susceptible. Witness the entire middle east, and the inbred Arabs and Jews, not to mention southern Ohio,''
the 'entire middle east' is 'inbred idiots'?
what about parts of Africa? they are also heavily religious, mostly muslim?
how come Africa gets a pass?
you're lucky I'm from NORTHERN Ohio, or I'd have to yell at you.
and four people gave this bigoted anti-semitic statement positives?
Its even bigoted in the context of religion-hating, pointing out specific regions and thereby religious persuasions
religion is inbreeding?
you could have at least said 'intellectual' inbreeding.
lame
and I guess I did yell at you, N ohio dweller or not
Yes she is. Where she no longer suffers from any ailment. Or stupid parents.
I truly believe in God, Christ and the Holy Spirit.
But when my children were sick or injured I not only prayed, I took them to doctors. Who had medical training and knowledge. I had faith that God would help my child with the knowledge he had given that doctor.
Someone needs to inform these parents that while prayer is called for so is action. When my grandson got hit by a car we prayed. We prayed when he was on the helicopter on the way to the hospital. We prayed when we were on our way to the hospital and we prayed and gave thanks when he was alright.
But we let the professionals look at him to make sure.
I wonder if these same people pray the coffee and food they need to prepare are done everyday? Or if they actually do what is needed and give thanks for being able to.
They need some serious help. With understanding a lot of things.
midleft:
There have been doctors who have no answers for how a patient was healed from some deadly disease. They have attributed it to prayer. Whether you choose to believe it is your choice.
Prayer is not always answered with positive as n2n stated.
There are prayers that are answered with a yes and those that are answered with a no.
gramps in this case midleft is correct. The nuns funded a prayer study, the P.I. was a doc who had survived cancer. Many of the patients who were "visited" were extremely ******ed as were their family members. I was afraid the hospital would lose all credibility. Fortunately the double blind study proved no credibility whatsoever.
I'll give you one quick example.
When my grandson was hit by a car doing 35 MPH. He shattered the windshield bounced off the car and landed on his feet 10 feet from the car. He walked over and asked a lady to call 911 then fell out. When the paramedics arrived the blood pressure was low and falling, he also had chalky white skin a sign of shock but also a sign of internal bleeding.
They calld in Life Flight and flew him to Loma Linda hospital. When the doctors saw him they were amazed. They did all their checks and xrays and found only bumps and bruises. The doctor told me he had just treated a girl wo git hit by a car going 15MPH and she died.
When I told him we were praying this doctor told me that he could not give me a logical reason for my grandson not have a broken back or ribs as well as internal bleeding.
Now you are all welcome to believe as you please. But I know God wrapped his mighty and protective hand around my grandson that day. I know it!
Some times the answer is NO to prayers, and that's why God gave us a brain to think of the ways to help ourselves.
The Parents meant no harm to their child, but they need some consequences for their actions.
midleft
And no evidence for how the material came into being out of nothing, how that created the big bang, how life came into being in primordial goo, or macro evolution. Just faith that it happened. Sounds like a religion to me.
Then can we just agree to quit filling in the gaps with imaginary friends until such time we have discovered evidence of such a being(s)?
Is that too much to ask?
Why not AR? There is just as much eveidence of God existing as their is the God doesn't,,, we'll go the 'friend' route, you can stay with the little dishes and growing cultures of mold. I hear that Stacki mold is very interesting.
"There is just as much eveidence of God existing as their is the God doesn't"
There is?
Why don't you present some?
AR the point is there is no evidence either for or against his existence, just faith. (no evidence for either amounts to the same)
"AR the point is there is no evidence either for or against his existence, just faith."
The point was there is evidence that justifies belief in things like referring to a transcendent deity in the masculine form.
Like I said before, can we just stop filling in the gaps until we actually have evidence to justify qualifications and quantifications?
midleft-no reason in the world to call people idiots or inbreds because of their beliefs, except for your own hate filled mind. Religion and prayer has helped many people, being Agnostic I cannot say because there was any 'God' who answered their prayers, but because in a way those people might have helped themselves because they believed. It is 'self help' some people find their belief a great comfort, and if it helps them fantastic! it doesn't mean I believe, but I believe they believe. And in the end..who knows, they may be right! Besides harming others with any belief, why do you care what someone believes in? would you call a child who believes in Santa a moron? an inbred idiot?
I won't devalue someones prayer belief just as I wouldn't want someone to devalue my belief in luck, hope etc...
but it has to remain personal, you cannot harm other as these parents harmed their child by not providing her with medical attention. Very selfish.
midleft-I never said harm couldn't come to people who believe in 'Gods',Billions upon billions of times it has, I said a persons belief should NOT cause others harm. And if people use religion for greed, political gain, power, justification for violence,etc.. then yes that is selfish!!!!
so you are off a fence,you're off the fense, I guess that means you are a very exciting person!! LOL, right! no need to say which side you are standing on, but how about proving without a doubt that there is no God! I'm not saying there is...but well you know, just as you think you know Agnostics are boring, I have to admit people like you that are so hate filled aren't boring, not exciting either..I don't have a perfect word for people that say and believe in some of the things you do.
These people like EVERYONE else on Earth need to be responsible for their actions.
not2needy: Where in the Bible does it say that sometimes the answer is no? It says just the opposite, over and over again.
Matthew 7:8
For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Matthew 21:22
And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.
Mark 11:24
Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.
Luke 11:10
For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened.
John 16:24
Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.
you are right, 'do unto others' is complete mythology
the older you get the less 'sure' you'll get
the 'surety of youth' indeed
*sigh*
''The bible, koran, and anything written before modern knowledge is complete mythology.''
A friend tells me that certain mathematic formulas were invented BCE. like around the time of the Buddha
A ways before 'modern knowledge'
you may want to be more careful in your writing
but doubtless you just need a little seasoning
wisdom may not come with age, but perspective usually does
And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, the stupidity of religion at it's most evil.
Pray to save your child from diabetes (which of course human SCIENCE can treat) and then keep telling me we should teach intelligent design as an alternative to science in schools.
Go on, keep telling me.
Question: Have you ever known someone who has become ill with a treatable illness, go to the doctors/hospitals and died? I have.
Have you ever seen someone whom the doctors say they cannot help and that they don't have a chance to live through the night but still not only survive but recover to live a quality life? I have.
The point I'm trying to make is this: Is medical science perfect? Of course not. If the medical profession fails to heal a person and that person dies, will the family be critisized for not relying on prayer?
FOR THE RECORD: I believe in the power of prayer and the ability of the medical profession. I have a right to my belief, you have a right to yours and those parents have a right to theirs. Once their rights are taken away from them, and my rights are taken away from me, there'll be no one to keep your rights from being taken away too!
Sure. It happens. But, if you pray to some Big Daddy in the sky to save you when you're bleeding from a fountaining carotid artery rather than go to a doctor I think you're flat out crazy. But, that's not the point.
Your point is pointless. You can believe whatever you want, but I'll bet you any amount of money you want that if these parents were accused of beating the crap out of their child and selling him or her over the Internet in a kiddie porn ring that you'd be outraged. And rightfully so. But, if they happen to belong to the Church of Internet Kiddie Porn and Child Beating (there are sillier things) are you still going to say that it's within these parents rights to do as they wish with their children for religious beliefs? Of course you wouldn't. And rightfully so.
Don't get hung up on the issue, it's really pretty simple.
"Your point is pointless." Only to the arrogant.
Your example is downright silly and totally absurd. If it is the intention of the parents to kill or harm the child by withholding medical treatment, that would be one thing. But their intention was to bring about healing in the way they believed to have the best chance.
To expound upon my example above. My brother's son had a medically treatable condition. My brother took him to an MD who performed surgery and declared my nephew cured. A few months later, my nephew died from that condition. Is my brother to be faulted for not taking him to a BETTER doctor or to a BETTER medical facility? My brother made a wrong decision as to whom he took his son. A different doctor may have saved him. These parents made a wrong decision concerning their child and they are hurting.
Can you say with 100% surity that insulin would have saved the child's life? Maybe 99%, but not 100%.
So it's ok if I chain my daughter to her bed when she misbehave because I believe that I'm not harming her, I'm just correcting her and it's the best thing to do?
Chain? Try Deuteronomy 21:18-21
"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."
No, your point is pointless to those who understand the difference between doing what is possible and doing what is unimaginably improbable (is that not the definition of a miracle?).
Nothing is certain. Nothing is 100%. I am 99% sure that there is no god, but I am not 100% sure, because I can not prove it. Their intention may have been good, but the road to damnation is paved with good intentions.
If the parents beat the crap out of their kid ("spare the rod and spoil the child" sound familiar?) to save the child's soul from Hell and if they thought that selling the kiddie porn pictures was somehow "cleansing" the evil from her soul, those parents would also have the best of intentions, would they not?
Your position is indefensible.
I wonder if the childs parents where badly injured in an accident if they would seek medical aid or just pray to be healed. If one wishes to mess with ones own life fine but when it comes to other peoples lives especially children I wish some of these people would clue in.
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Resurrected for what? So she can be denied medical treatment for her diabetes again?
Sheesh!